Discussion: Aging in the Wizarding World

[hpgoldenage_mod]

Time for our first discussion post. :)

What does canon tell us about aging in the wizarding world and what is your own head canon on the topic? Feel free to cite canon examples as well as reference fanworks, perhaps a favorite fic that matches your head canon or made you see aging in a whole new way.

Comments

[lightofdaye]

It's certainly an interesting topic. I think I feel safe saying from a canon point of view that wizards can live a long time. Look at Dumbledore as a prime example. (as we can in RL but possibly they'd retain much higher living.) But there's not a huge number of characters in that age bracket still around. Most notably in their abscence I would think are Harry's grandparents and Ron's as well, though he seems to have great aunts.

Now perhaps a lot of people in that age group were killed off in the first war or perhaps the older characters are remarkable.

As for the cause of longevity it may that magically healing methods are just that good. Like a modern standard of medicine in RL keeps people around. Or there maybe something innate to wizards that keeps them going naturally. It reminds me of the Dresden Files where wizards have a natural lifespan of two or three centuries thanks to the fact their bodies heal a lot of better than regular humans.

Perhaps something similar is true of HP Wizards, or its a talent that Wizards get in varying amounts. That would explain how seem get very old and some don't seem to.

[torino10154]

I wish we had more concrete examples of older witches and wizards. I do think Dumbledore is an extraordinary wizard and there are a few characters mentioned who are older but seeing more like Dumbledore would help things. Then again, a lot of characters we don't really know their ages. Moody, for example.

[woldy]

Bathilda Bagshot is canonically very old (older than Dumbles, since she was a friend of his parents during his childhood), and both Muriel Weasley and Griselda Marchbanks are elderly. I think there are actually quite a few older characters, just in less prominent roles.

[vaysh]

JK said in an interview from 2000: "Dumbledore is a hundred and fifty, and Professor McGonagall is a sprightly seventy. Wizards have a much longer life expectancy than Muggles." Later she changed Dumbledore's life dates to 1881-1996 (here: Wizard of the Month)

Canon seems to imply that the stronger a witch or wizard is magically, the longer her or his life-expectancy may be. I don't have actual proof or quotes for this, but it was always my impression.

The Black family is an interesting case, because despite being one of the oldest magical families in Britain, the Blacks generally don't have unusually long life-spans, see The Black Family tree. Certainly nobody of that family lived as long as Dumbledore who was 116 years old when he died (not a natural death, either). Sometimes, in fanfic, there is this notion that "purebloods" live longer than "half-bloods". The Black Family Tree clearly says that this is not true. (Obviously, really, because there is no difference, biologically and magically, between "purebloods" and "half-bloods".)

[sdkshelly.livejournal.com]

I always had the same impression somehow--about magical strength directly relating to age, but I have no idea where I got this impression. I always wondered too about Dumbledore's age--JKR clearly changed her mind about him and I know she's kind of weak on numbers regardless, but there was also that business with the Philosopher's Stone. Didn't he use it as well? Or am I completely misremembering? But that could sort of take him out of the running as far as using him as an example for how wizards and witches age.

[torino10154]

I don't think he used it himself.

Also, random aside, I think she also changed how old Minerva is maybe in the Pottermore update about her. I know initially her birthdate was closer to Tom Riddle's and now it's about ten years later. If she was 70 in the 90's, then she was born in the 20's. Now it's listed as 1935.

[birdsofshore]

That's really interesting, because my head canon for both Dumbledore and McGonagall is older than that. If wizards and witches live longer, I'd expect someone of 70 to be more like a 50 or 60 year old in Muggle society, and McGonagall definitely is characterised, to me, as an older woman of 70+. Does that make sense?

[torino10154]

See, hmm, regarding the pureblood thing, there are so many things to say. I personally have always felt it was more like inbreeding than strength. I probably compare it with dog breeding a bit more than is appropriate. LOL At the same time, we also know most families aren't really pure anyway.

Also, I was thinking how part of the deal with Voldemort choosing Harry was that they were both half-blood, unlike Neville but some of that is likely more just another way they are "twins". I just could have sworn there was more to it than that.

[torino10154]

I am leaving my own comment rather than just weighing in as moderator. LOL

I've always been less than convinced about this whole wizards live longer than Muggles. Yes, there are a few notable exceptions but it does seem for the most part that something kills you, whether it's Dragon Pox or your fellow wizards. :P

But a recent thing of note was JKR's little tale from the Quidditch World Cup. Whether you consider it canon or not, apparently Harry already has a few grey hairs at what, 34? Yes, that's Rita's biased story but he sounds like a perfectly average bloke to me. I'd have wanted to see him at 50 with not a one to believe wizards were different than Muggles. And let's not even get started on Draco's receding hairline at the age of 37.

So they live longer but age normally? This is something that's always bothered me, honestly.

[sdkshelly.livejournal.com]

This is apropos of nothing because I know movie canon doesn't really count in this discussion, but when I saw the epilogue, I thought--seriously? 37 is that old? Damn I look good for my age, then. LOL

Back to that article--
I wonder if the grey hair was supposed to indicate stress from his job rather than be an indication of normal aging. And I still think you could spin it whereas, some people get their first grey hairs in their 20s. So Harry could be one of those types, except because of the prolonged lifespan, it happened in his 30s? If that makes sense?

[torino10154]

Well, it is true that being president, for example, really does make your hair turn grey. But I feel like it's a bit of a stretch to think actually he would have prematurely greyed so now it's normal. Same with Draco's ridic hairline. I mean yeah, I had a teacher in high school with a Tom Felton-esque hairline. But if wizards are supposed to do better, well, she shouldn't use the worst case scenarios. LOL

And also, I do realize that's a superficial indication. If all witches and wizards looked 20 years younger, people would be suspicious. But considering there is very little other evidence beyond a few name-drop characters who lived to 200, throw me a bone here. LOL

[birdsofshore]

From personal experience I find that men with that very black hair do go grey awfully early (and women, for that matter). I was at Uni with a guy and his sister, both in their 20s, who had a lot of grey in their black hair, then in my 20s I lived with a guy with black hair and he was starting to go grey before he hit 30.

Mr Birds is also very dark haired and started to go grey in his 20s, so I suppose Harry having a few grey hairs at 34 is not really much to talk about.

I think Draco's receding hairline was a caddish low blow from JKR, though. She never liked him! Not that there's anything wrong with losing your hair, (looks fondly at Mr Birds) but we all know Draco would bloody hate it!)

[torino10154]

Well, right, exactly. It's what the average Muggle would have. My husband has dark brown hair and I remember when I could count the grey hairs. LOL But Harry's a wizard who "has a longer life expectancy than Muggles". That's why I am side-eyeing it, not because I don't think he'd be dead sexy. ;)

[sdkshelly.livejournal.com]

I think Draco's receding hairline was a caddish low blow from JKR, though.

AH I almost included that in my reply to Torino actually, but erased it because I thought it might accidentally cause wank. But I definitely agree. She always seemed mystified by fans of Draco and thought it was just cause Tom Felton was attractive, so I always thought she threw that receding hairline in on purpose.

[capitu]

And let's not even get started on Draco's receding hairline at the age of 37.

I have no idea about that, what are you talking about? That never happened? XD

I'm kidding, of course. But that's very interesting, because in that context, it'd seem they are aging at a Muggle rate, it'd seem. But maybe it's biologic, too, you know? Like, my brother, he's in his early 40s and his head is peppered with greys hair, and it's because so was my mum and dad at that age.

[capitu]

Sometimes, in fanfic, there is this notion that "purebloods" live longer than "half-bloods".

I remember reading a story... it was Harry/Draco, Hermione/Severus, in which both Harry and Hermione were aging faster than their husbands.

I remember thinking something like, 'yeah, I suppose that makes sense.' As a theory, but my personal headcanon is more like, you know, with Muggles, I don't think it'd only depend on how powerful they are. I rather thing it's the way they live, too. Like, if a person dives into the Dark Arts, it corrupts them in a way, and so their bodies/wealth, eventually suffer. But I have no canon evidence to support my theory.

[birdsofshore]

if a person dives into the Dark Arts, it corrupts them in a way, and so their bodies/wealth, eventually suffer

OK, so is that why you look about 12? Your purity, your upstanding morals and your love of rimming? ;-)

This would actually explain why I look like an old boot, though ;-)

[torino10154]

That must have been an oldie, since Severus was a pureblood in it.

I do like the idea that the Dark Arts and that sort of thing could have a physical effect even on aging. Like a two pack a day habit would damage your body, so would Dark magic. (I mean we know it does somewhat from Voldemort but he goes above and beyond really.)

[vaysh]

I rather thing it's the way they live, too. Like, if a person dives into the Dark Arts, it corrupts them in a way, and so their bodies/wealth, eventually suffer.

Dorian Grey-like, you mean? That's fascinating; I'd love to read a story based on that. But - I could never make it my headcanon. It presupposes that "nature" has morals and punishes those who behave amorally. And well, nature has no morals. Morality is man-made, or part of a spiritual or religious belief. I'd love to know more, though, about why Voldemort looked the way he did, after his return.

[squibstress.livejournal.com]

I've often wondered about the "sprightly seventy" years attributed to McGonagall. Until the dawn of Pottermore, the only thing we had to go on was Harry's first impressions of her, which included her black hair. How many 70-year-olds of Harry's acquaintance had hair that wasn't gray? And of course, once Pottermore came along, we learned that she wasn't 70 at all, she was only in her mid-fifties. What would have led Harry to estimate her at 70? Did McGonagall perhaps expose her Celtic skin to too much sun as a girl? Or was that just the odd perception of an 11-year-old boy?

I also wonder if the relatively short lifespans of members of the Black family (and possibly the Potters) could be related to homozygosity. Recessive magical diseases, anyone?

[torino10154]

I find Minerva a bit confusing now that her age is apparently different than I believed before. Granted, Harry's 11 and frankly, hardly knows anyone besides the Dursleys, a few neighbors, and whomever was at the primary school.

I do like the idea of there being inbreeding or something effecting purebloods and making it so they don't actually get as old as they might.

We really only have the tip of the iceberg with wizard longevity--it exists. There's so much more to discover (or write about).

[germankitty]

Just butting in on the giong grey early/late thing -- I'm a medium/dark blonde, and my mother detected my first grey hair on my 19th birthday. :) I've started dyeing my hair to hide grey rather than for fashion in my early forties.

My paternal grandmoher went from chestnut-brown hair to grey/white in her mid-thirties (although for her, WW II, being widowed and becoming a refugee may have cntributed). My dark-haired father had lots of grey hairs when he died at age 42.

On the other hand, my mother-in-law and her mother, both dark-haired, didn't start going grey until their late 50s and retained traces of their original hair color in their high eighties/mid nineties.

So it's VERY individual, and most likely genetic -- same as human male pattern baldness. (Personally, I prefer to think of Draco with a receding hairline if I must rather than a [possible] comb-over!)

[torino10154]

(Personally, I prefer to think of Draco with a receding hairline if I must rather than a [possible] comb-over!)

LOL Too true!!

As I said in a different comment, I guess I haven't been separating genetics from wizard longevity as I considered this issue. Still not sure I do even now but it's been interesting to see everyone's comments on it, for sure. Much to think about and consider when writing.

[elmyraemilie.livejournal.com]

Of course I was AFK for this fascinating discussion!

And of course I have $.02 to put in:

I have always been persuaded by Dumbledore's documented age that wizards have the potential to live longer than Muggles. I don't follow Pottermore, so I remain uninfluenced (or possibly unconfused!) by subsequent changes and restatements on JKR's part.

Harry, at 11, saw a woman he believed to be in her 70's when he saw McGonagall; this is the age my grandson was when he said his teacher was "really old like you, G-ma," so Harry's judgement may be a bit, um, flawed.

It seems to me that wizards age more slowly as they get older. The kids graduate from secondary school at 17-18, just like any kids do. They start having babies at the usual time. I don't remember how old Bill was when he married Fleur(I'm sure someone out there who is much better than I am at canon can say) but I think he's in his late twenties. Molly and Arthur appear to be average middle-aged parents in the movies, though as I read the books I thought of them as being younger in appearance.

In my head-canon, once the family is raised, aging slows. The biological imperative has been answered, and the wizard's body uses energy formerly expended on producing hormones to heal and preserve itself. This slows down the aging process, so though a fifty-year-old witch will look fifty, a seventy-year-old witch may well still have black hair, and a hundred-and-sixteen-year-old wizard may still enjoy hiking and trotting up and down Hogwarts' staircases.

That's how I have my cake and eat it too! :-)

[torino10154]

That does make a lot of sense. I think it does explain Dumbledore and anyone in the low hundred's being active. Not sure about the 200 year olds though. LOL Makes me think of lobsters--they can live forever (it seems) if nothing kills them.

And Bill is ten years older than Harry, or ten years younger than Snape, so fairly easy to remember actually. LOL

Arthur is tall and thin but also balding in the books: "He was a thin man, going bald, but the little hair on his head was as red as any of his children’s."

As we've discussed in this post may or may not mean anything but I took it as meaning he was "middle-aged" but not "old". LOL

(Apparently he was born in 1950, so he'd actually have been in his mid-40's in canon. Also making he and Molly about 20 when they started having kids. Sounds like the Potterverse, all right.)