Discussion: Aging in the Wizarding World

[hpgoldenage_mod]

Time for our first discussion post. :)

What does canon tell us about aging in the wizarding world and what is your own head canon on the topic? Feel free to cite canon examples as well as reference fanworks, perhaps a favorite fic that matches your head canon or made you see aging in a whole new way.

Comments

[lightofdaye]

It's certainly an interesting topic. I think I feel safe saying from a canon point of view that wizards can live a long time. Look at Dumbledore as a prime example. (as we can in RL but possibly they'd retain much higher living.) But there's not a huge number of characters in that age bracket still around. Most notably in their abscence I would think are Harry's grandparents and Ron's as well, though he seems to have great aunts.

Now perhaps a lot of people in that age group were killed off in the first war or perhaps the older characters are remarkable.

As for the cause of longevity it may that magically healing methods are just that good. Like a modern standard of medicine in RL keeps people around. Or there maybe something innate to wizards that keeps them going naturally. It reminds me of the Dresden Files where wizards have a natural lifespan of two or three centuries thanks to the fact their bodies heal a lot of better than regular humans.

Perhaps something similar is true of HP Wizards, or its a talent that Wizards get in varying amounts. That would explain how seem get very old and some don't seem to.

[vaysh]

JK said in an interview from 2000: "Dumbledore is a hundred and fifty, and Professor McGonagall is a sprightly seventy. Wizards have a much longer life expectancy than Muggles." Later she changed Dumbledore's life dates to 1881-1996 (here: Wizard of the Month)

Canon seems to imply that the stronger a witch or wizard is magically, the longer her or his life-expectancy may be. I don't have actual proof or quotes for this, but it was always my impression.

The Black family is an interesting case, because despite being one of the oldest magical families in Britain, the Blacks generally don't have unusually long life-spans, see The Black Family tree. Certainly nobody of that family lived as long as Dumbledore who was 116 years old when he died (not a natural death, either). Sometimes, in fanfic, there is this notion that "purebloods" live longer than "half-bloods". The Black Family Tree clearly says that this is not true. (Obviously, really, because there is no difference, biologically and magically, between "purebloods" and "half-bloods".)

[torino10154]

I am leaving my own comment rather than just weighing in as moderator. LOL

I've always been less than convinced about this whole wizards live longer than Muggles. Yes, there are a few notable exceptions but it does seem for the most part that something kills you, whether it's Dragon Pox or your fellow wizards. :P

But a recent thing of note was JKR's little tale from the Quidditch World Cup. Whether you consider it canon or not, apparently Harry already has a few grey hairs at what, 34? Yes, that's Rita's biased story but he sounds like a perfectly average bloke to me. I'd have wanted to see him at 50 with not a one to believe wizards were different than Muggles. And let's not even get started on Draco's receding hairline at the age of 37.

So they live longer but age normally? This is something that's always bothered me, honestly.

[capitu]

Sometimes, in fanfic, there is this notion that "purebloods" live longer than "half-bloods".

I remember reading a story... it was Harry/Draco, Hermione/Severus, in which both Harry and Hermione were aging faster than their husbands.

I remember thinking something like, 'yeah, I suppose that makes sense.' As a theory, but my personal headcanon is more like, you know, with Muggles, I don't think it'd only depend on how powerful they are. I rather thing it's the way they live, too. Like, if a person dives into the Dark Arts, it corrupts them in a way, and so their bodies/wealth, eventually suffer. But I have no canon evidence to support my theory.

[sdkshelly.livejournal.com]

I always had the same impression somehow--about magical strength directly relating to age, but I have no idea where I got this impression. I always wondered too about Dumbledore's age--JKR clearly changed her mind about him and I know she's kind of weak on numbers regardless, but there was also that business with the Philosopher's Stone. Didn't he use it as well? Or am I completely misremembering? But that could sort of take him out of the running as far as using him as an example for how wizards and witches age.

[sdkshelly.livejournal.com]

This is apropos of nothing because I know movie canon doesn't really count in this discussion, but when I saw the epilogue, I thought--seriously? 37 is that old? Damn I look good for my age, then. LOL

Back to that article--
I wonder if the grey hair was supposed to indicate stress from his job rather than be an indication of normal aging. And I still think you could spin it whereas, some people get their first grey hairs in their 20s. So Harry could be one of those types, except because of the prolonged lifespan, it happened in his 30s? If that makes sense?

[torino10154]

I don't think he used it himself.

Also, random aside, I think she also changed how old Minerva is maybe in the Pottermore update about her. I know initially her birthdate was closer to Tom Riddle's and now it's about ten years later. If she was 70 in the 90's, then she was born in the 20's. Now it's listed as 1935.

[birdsofshore]

That's really interesting, because my head canon for both Dumbledore and McGonagall is older than that. If wizards and witches live longer, I'd expect someone of 70 to be more like a 50 or 60 year old in Muggle society, and McGonagall definitely is characterised, to me, as an older woman of 70+. Does that make sense?

[torino10154]

Well, it is true that being president, for example, really does make your hair turn grey. But I feel like it's a bit of a stretch to think actually he would have prematurely greyed so now it's normal. Same with Draco's ridic hairline. I mean yeah, I had a teacher in high school with a Tom Felton-esque hairline. But if wizards are supposed to do better, well, she shouldn't use the worst case scenarios. LOL

And also, I do realize that's a superficial indication. If all witches and wizards looked 20 years younger, people would be suspicious. But considering there is very little other evidence beyond a few name-drop characters who lived to 200, throw me a bone here. LOL

[birdsofshore]

From personal experience I find that men with that very black hair do go grey awfully early (and women, for that matter). I was at Uni with a guy and his sister, both in their 20s, who had a lot of grey in their black hair, then in my 20s I lived with a guy with black hair and he was starting to go grey before he hit 30.

Mr Birds is also very dark haired and started to go grey in his 20s, so I suppose Harry having a few grey hairs at 34 is not really much to talk about.

I think Draco's receding hairline was a caddish low blow from JKR, though. She never liked him! Not that there's anything wrong with losing your hair, (looks fondly at Mr Birds) but we all know Draco would bloody hate it!)

[birdsofshore]

if a person dives into the Dark Arts, it corrupts them in a way, and so their bodies/wealth, eventually suffer

OK, so is that why you look about 12? Your purity, your upstanding morals and your love of rimming? ;-)

This would actually explain why I look like an old boot, though ;-)

[sdkshelly.livejournal.com]

I'm not saying you have to buy it! I'm just saying, it's easy to come up with explanations to make it work. But yeah, I totally think Harry could have gotten his grey from stress. And like you said, Tom Felton is a RL example of someone young having a receding hairline already. It's a common enough thing. I don't know why it would be different for wizards even if they live longer?

[torino10154]

Well, right, exactly. It's what the average Muggle would have. My husband has dark brown hair and I remember when I could count the grey hairs. LOL But Harry's a wizard who "has a longer life expectancy than Muggles". That's why I am side-eyeing it, not because I don't think he'd be dead sexy. ;)

[sdkshelly.livejournal.com]

I think Draco's receding hairline was a caddish low blow from JKR, though.

AH I almost included that in my reply to Torino actually, but erased it because I thought it might accidentally cause wank. But I definitely agree. She always seemed mystified by fans of Draco and thought it was just cause Tom Felton was attractive, so I always thought she threw that receding hairline in on purpose.

[torino10154]

OK but if there is no difference in how you age, what happens? At 90, your body looks 90 but acts 70? How about 200? I mean I am being argumentative, yes, LOL but I would have liked actual evidence of a benefit of their supposed longevity.

Also, the comment Birds (I think) left about McG seeming like she's 70. That's how she's written. She doesn't seem younger (and in fact, as I mentioned elsewhere, she actually is LOL).

[sdkshelly.livejournal.com]

I guess I just see prematurely greying and receding hairlines as genetics and not having anything to do with your actual body aging though? Like, just because someone has a receding hairline doesn't mean their body is 'older' than normal? I just don't understand what one has to do with the other tbh.

But I agree, there is a ton of conflicting information if you take what JKR has said in interviews and Pottermore and things being revised date-wise into account. All I was trying to point out is that you could make the case that Harry having grey hair in his 30s and Draco having a receding hairline in his 30s isn't proof that wizards and witches have normal lifespans and anything that implies differently is a bunch of hogwash. I mean, I'm being argumentative as well, LOL! But I just don't understand your position I guess. Like why it's okay to interpret it one way and not the other? I don't really have a dog in the race though! I don't have a definite opinion one way or the other, really!

[birdsofshore]

Ah, yeah, I suppose what I was trying to say is that I think "a few" grey hairs at 34 *is* ageing later than usual!

But, yes, sexy. *happy grin* I don't know why I always imagine Harry being an absolute knockout as he gets older. I can imagine that more easily than when he's young, tbh.

[torino10154]

LOL OK, fair enough.

[torino10154]

Well, quite honestly I just think a 30-45 year old man is a totally different kind of sexy and that interests me far more than 18 year old boys. LOL

*uses 17-year-old in icon just to be difficult*

[torino10154]

That must have been an oldie, since Severus was a pureblood in it.

I do like the idea that the Dark Arts and that sort of thing could have a physical effect even on aging. Like a two pack a day habit would damage your body, so would Dark magic. (I mean we know it does somewhat from Voldemort but he goes above and beyond really.)

[torino10154]

See, hmm, regarding the pureblood thing, there are so many things to say. I personally have always felt it was more like inbreeding than strength. I probably compare it with dog breeding a bit more than is appropriate. LOL At the same time, we also know most families aren't really pure anyway.

Also, I was thinking how part of the deal with Voldemort choosing Harry was that they were both half-blood, unlike Neville but some of that is likely more just another way they are "twins". I just could have sworn there was more to it than that.

[torino10154]

I wish we had more concrete examples of older witches and wizards. I do think Dumbledore is an extraordinary wizard and there are a few characters mentioned who are older but seeing more like Dumbledore would help things. Then again, a lot of characters we don't really know their ages. Moody, for example.

[torino10154]

Coming back by not to argue really but to share a couple things.

I went to look up grey hair at wikipedia and there is a section on the order hair tends to go grey (nose hair, hair on the head, beard, body hair, eyebrows). It does say it starts in men in their mid-twenties and women in their late twenties and 60% of Americans have some grey by 40. Oh, and stress has not been directly linked even with anecdotal evidence like the presidents.

The last thing I was going to say is that P has always had one grey hair, as long as I can remember. I can usually find it on his head pretty quickly. LOL We say it's because he's wise beyond his years. :P

[vaysh]

I rather thing it's the way they live, too. Like, if a person dives into the Dark Arts, it corrupts them in a way, and so their bodies/wealth, eventually suffer.

Dorian Grey-like, you mean? That's fascinating; I'd love to read a story based on that. But - I could never make it my headcanon. It presupposes that "nature" has morals and punishes those who behave amorally. And well, nature has no morals. Morality is man-made, or part of a spiritual or religious belief. I'd love to know more, though, about why Voldemort looked the way he did, after his return.

[sdkshelly.livejournal.com]

I feel like this strengthens my argument, but IDEK. LOL But let's be real. JKR totally gave Harry some grey hair because she knows it's dead sexy. I doubt any further thought went into it. ;)

Apropos of nothing, I remember when I got my first grey hair, I was oddly proud of it. I couldn't tell you why. It seems stupid now that there's a whole lot more! Haha.